There is a problem…the only response is silence

There is a problem in this country when church and community leaders speak out in favor of violence. Bullying is an epidemic in our schools. School shootings are commonplace. In the past two weeks, two mass shootings have happened and yet, we have a church pastor using what he considers the Word of God to defend certain examples of killing.

All I can do at this point is respond in silence.

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9 Responses to There is a problem…the only response is silence

  1. Avatar of Red Handy Red Handy says:

    In the most recent example of a mass shooting reports say the a policeman shot and killed the gunman even while taking a few bullets himself. This officer is being hailed a hero, and rightly so in my opinion. If I understand your position correctly however, what the police officer did was no more justified than what the gunman did.

    And if someone breaks into my home to tie up my wife and children, possibly rape and torture them and I have a gun and can prevent this from happening by killing this invader, you would say that is morally wrong?

    Am I missing something here? Please clarify.

  2. Red, I will repeat:

    “You are claiming that peace is found through violence and it seems that you have forgotten we, as “Christians” worship the “Prince of Peace.”

    Did you study PAX ROMANA in seminary??? Peace through the empire and the empire finds peace through violence. The way of Jesus speaks against peace via the empire. In fact, the way of Jesus speaks against the Empire of which america is one no matter what political party is in office.

    Did you study the Constantinian Shift and the implications of it? Have you studied the radical non-violent way of the Jesus movement before Christianity was deemed the religion of Rome??? Have you read the early movement’s documents in which once a person was baptized they denied any military service??

    I am fine with people disagreeing with me and yes, I write these articles as an alternative voice in a world filled with hate and violence…a world riddled with bullying, mass shootings, and war upon countries that we feel we have the right to invade, destroy and take over due to a difference of ideologies. You are advocating violence through what you call “THE WORD OF GOD” and I’m not quite sure how the Prince of Peace would feel about that.”

  3. Avatar of Red Handy Red Handy says:

    I don’t advocate violence under any circumstance unless it is a necessary means to a greater moral good and sometimes it is. When is that action justified is the real issue. My position is that you cannot say “never”.

    I cited two examples above that I think makes my point. Your response to my questions would provide me greater insight into understanding your point of view. Not sure why you refuse to answer these two very simple questions but I’ll ask them again.

    1.) Was the policeman morally wrong to shoot and kill the gunman?

    2.) Am I morally wrong to defend my family (with lethal force) from an intruder who has intentions to do bodily harm or cause death to my family?

    Red

  4. I do not believe that violence to stop violence is the answer; thus, could the policeman stopped the shooter without killing him? Could you have enough wisdom, insight, and intellect to converse with the person to stop him from hurting your family?

    John Howard Yoder has a book titled “What Would You Do?” which speaks to this very issue. In this book, you will find an essay by S.H. Booth-Clibborn called “Is It Too Late?”. This article as well as the book directly speaks to the question, “If a violent person threatened to harm a loved one..what would you do?” (As a side note: Yoder has this written at the beginning of the book, “To those in whose defense I pray I would be ready to risk my life if need be to not kill.”

    Booth states, “The reader is urged to here to compare the following passages in order to realize the wide difference existing between Israel and the church of Christ:

    Difference in calling Gen 12.1 (Israel) Philippians 3.20 (church)

    Difference in conduct Deut. 7.1,2 (Israel) Matt 5.38-44 (church)

    Difference in worship Lev 17.8,9 (Israel) Matt 18.20 (church)

    I use this illustration for you because you claim your “Christianity” so forcefully that I thought maybe just maybe you would remember the verse that says, “The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” and please note: I do not pit Israel and the Church as being in tension, but I felt it might speak “your language.”

    Sorry, Red, you and I are going to agree to disagree and I am going to say that John Howard Yoder holds more “christianity” in his little toe than I see witnessed to by your words.

  5. Just wondering says:

    You claim that John Howard Yoder holds more “chirstianity” in his little toe than you see witnessed in the words of Red Handy. Just who, Ms. Mclaughlin, is going to make that judgement? You or the God you serve?

  6. Avatar of Red Handy Red Handy says:

    Wow. Predictable response, but appalling none the less. **So our police officers are killers as well. Not much left to say to you at this point except to address your alternative suggestion. I absolutely would use all my wisdom, insight, and intellect to pull the trigger if needed to defend my family (or anyone else for that matter) from a murderous criminal as described in the scenarios above.

    Red

  7. Red, you made an incredibly illogical jump. Have you ever considered what would happen within a human being that would enable one to kill?? Sir, you are an ass.

  8. It seems that the intuition it takes to consider the plight of the “other” is not present within the minds of those who have responded. “pulling the trigger” does not come from a place of intellect, intuition or wisdom. It comes from a place of instinct…survival instinct…which tells me that one does not have ability to engage at a level beyond animalistic. When considering “the other” moving beyond basic instinct allows for one to do more than show compassion. It allows for the “space” that acknowledges “I don’t know or understand why the person is doing what they are doing because I am not them. I do not know what has brought them to this point. I do not know the path, the life experiences, the abuse, or the exploitation that would nurture an ability to hurt at this level.” Red and Just, you are both reacting out of a superiority rather than a place of compassion or justice or for goodness sakes a place of divinity. There is nothing I can do to change the anger, the superiority, or the religious imperialism that you both hold and for that I am sorry.

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